Passing a law is one thing. EnFORCEing it is another thing entirely. Funny how our would-be masters forget that 1) all compliance is voluntary and ) the ratio of chiefs to indians will always favor the indians. They also forget that though we are unorganized and un/under armed, as Stalin so succinctly put it, “Quantity has a quality all its own.”
It’s not all firearms though. It’s scary-looking semiautomatics, pistols that take more than ten rounds, and certain other scary-looking arms (i.e., “assault weapons”).
Stupid law.
By definition a revolver is a ‘semi-automatic’. One trigger pull = one bullet. I actually saw a guy shoot 5 separate 6 shot revolvers faster than another could empty a 30 round mag. and he picked them up one at a time.
Prior to that was Ed McGivern, author of “Fast & Fancy Revolver Shooting” who once put five shots into a space the size of a silver half dollar in 0.45 seconds, from a range of 15 feet, and also was able to empty two revolvers in less than two seconds.
February 11, 2020 at 12:28 am
JTC
Like everything with a basis in reason and good intent this is seized on and subverted to their own agenda of criminalization, confiscation, and control.
The only answer is reverting to due process as Zed says. Law enforcement is necessarily reactive and complaint driven. Any attempt at proactive steps will be twisted and taken advantage of to deny Constitutional rights, and protecting those trumps any potential bad behavior because gov at every level just cannot be trusted.
None of us would prefer individuals representing clear and present danger to possess the means to inflict it…but who decides and how to prevent it?
So there ya go…a basic protection order is inevitably twisted into a tool to subvert rights and process, and expanded to do the same to every citizen who in their eyes presents that danger by simply possessing a firearm.
And so as I said no prior intervention can work and we just have to wait until harm is done by the few in order to protect the rights of the many.
That is unfortunate because it enables things like happened here in little Sebring Fl exactly one year ago wherein a 20-something psychopath was sent by his dad in Indiana to his mom here. All parties knew he was unstable and on the verge of a crackup but he walked into the gun store across from my office, passed his NICS, waited his three days and picked up his Ruger 9mm. Then two days later he walked into the SunTrust branch a mile from my home not to rob it but purely to lay out the five ladies there all in a row and methodically blow holes in their heads one by one, killing them all and then calling 911 and giving up peacefully.
A rare incident to be sure but of course that is of little consolation to the families, or to the psyche of the community, to Sun bank which tore down a two million dollar building and turned it into a memorial park, or of course to taxpayers who will pay millions to prosecute, house and feed the POS for the rest of his wretched life.
Yet that is the price we must pay to prevent those with an evil agenda from disarming and enslaving us all. Just have to wait for the next crazy, and the next one, and sacrifice more innocent lives and untold treasure to avoid sacrificing our own rights and freedom and our Free Republic itself instead of having the ability to remove monsters from our midst.
Yeah, there’s human reasoning and good intent at the root of so-called red-flag laws; too bad that is not allowed in the world of those who ironically themselves should be classified as deranged and capable and intent on evil and destruction.
February 11, 2020 at 5:12 pm
Steve
“None of us would prefer individuals representing clear and present danger to possess the means to inflict it”
Well, that’s the rationale right there, isn’t it? To the Ds, any gun owner *is* such an individual, no?
February 11, 2020 at 5:39 pm
eon
One of the problems we used to have in law enforcement was the standard twice-yearly psych eval for sworn officers.
The problem was the fact that at least half of the psychologists hired by the state to do it defined anybody who wanted to wear a uniform and carry a weapon for a living as dangerously insane.
At the same time, they would refuse to sign off on putting somebody like a serial rapist under psych eval because they were “just seeing the world through different eyes” and everyone should be “valuing their insights”.
In one case, the psychs refused a family’s plea to have their 17-year-old son committed for two years. Until he murdered two women, kidnapped a 13-year-old girl, and raped her repeatedly for six days before he was apprehended.
BTW, the “deadly assault weapon” he used to commit the murders was a single-blade Barlow jack-knife.
And he could just as well have used a hammer, or a rock, or a lamp cord. Careful though with the old “everything is a murder tool” meme…it’s a double edged sword (as it were) that invites the antis to use your words against you to retort, “Then you don’t need a gun for self-defense, you can just use your Boy Scout knife.”
February 11, 2020 at 1:10 am
Pamela
Imagine what would have happened if they went after flintlocks.
Wait. They did in 1775. Lexington and Concord happened.
History repeats itself. Is there any Sacred Honor …
There is sacred honor. It is not well dispersed across these 50 states; but I think you will find higher concentrations in the areas where land ownership is not joint ownership of the common area in your apartment complex.
I think it is time for Virginia and Arizona to be secceeded from the union… by force. Just revoke their statehood and remove them from any benefits of Federal Dollars. Both get to be territories again… and reapplication for statehood is predicated specifically on them becoming compliant with the US constitution.
Last I heard the New California movement was coming back.
All Counties except Los Angeles, Sacramento, San Francisco, Marin, San Mateo and Alameda. Part of LA would be carved out as Rural LA and go with New California. I know most Californians are past pissed off.
February 11, 2020 at 1:47 pm
Halley
A California “in play” would be the Mother of All October Surprises. Use to be Reagan Country… could happen again, given the implosion of the TDS syndicate,,,
February 11, 2020 at 10:36 pm
NotYetInACamp
Properly apply the 14th Amendment and maybe 40% of California would be sent packing out of the USA. Harsh? Yes. By the law? Yes.
DNC Chair Tom Perez might be one sent to nation that he is subject to the jurisdiction of. And it’s not the USA.
Definitions and meanings of words again.
And all those someone desires to make a victim of, are the, in fact, first responders. Then comes any others.
The American was and is always the first responder. It is part of our God given rights.
In the United States, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimated roughly 1.7 million hospital-associated infections, from all types of microorganisms, including bacteria and fungi combined, cause or contribute to 99,000 deaths each year.
Substance abuse contributes to far more than the recognized half of the annual death toll of traffic accidents.
But the only way our Bee-Luvved Gummint can think of to “Do It For The Children™” or “Just Save One Life™” is to further infringe on the rights of citizens with laws that do nothing to inhibit criminals and wanna-be mass murderers.
Really?
The CDC was prohibited by Congress from doing “public health” research on civilian-owned firearms in the 1990s. This was after Bill Clinton’s newly-appointed director of same said that their objective was to define such arms as “dirty, deadly, and banned”.
Their methodology was the same as that used to “prove climate change”. Start with the objective (outlaw guns) and then cherry-pick data to support the objective (see ‘confirmation bias”).
Now the House Democrats want that ban lifted. And CDC is run by an Obama appointee.
Three guesses what they’ll demand in the name of “public health”.
Ironically, CDC is one of the more useless Federal agencies. They do very little actual research on communicable diseases. Most of their data comes from USAMRIID, the United States Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases, at Fort Detrick, MD. Which the “progressives” have been trying to shut down since it opened in 1969, because they think it exists to create weaponized viruses for biological warfare.
Everybody likes to quote the part of Eisenhower’s 17 Jan 1961 Farewell Address about the “military-industrial complex”. They never quote his next, and far more important, three paragraphs;
Akin to, and largely responsible for the sweeping changes in our industrial-military posture, has been the technological revolution during recent decades. In this revolution, research has become central; it also becomes more formalized, complex, and costly. A steadily increasing share is conducted for, by, or at the direction of, the Federal government.
Today, the solitary inventor, tinkering in his shop, has been overshadowed by task forces of scientists in laboratories and testing fields. In the same fashion, the free university, historically the fountainhead of free ideas and scientific discovery, has experienced a revolution in the conduct of research. Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity. For every old blackboard there are now hundreds of new electronic computers. The prospect of domination of the nation’s scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present — and is gravely to be regarded.
Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientific-technological elite.
This brain-dead Legislation is also dead on arrival. There are 3 bills being submitted. SB 1624, which bans private gun transactions and limits free movement with a firearm. SB 1625, which makes it illegal to own an ‘assault’ weapon unless you register it yearly and bans high cap magazines. And SB 1626, a ‘red flag law’ prohibiting ‘Respondents’ to an Order of Protection hearing from possessing a firearm or ammunition.
All 3 were submitted by the same 9 Democrat State Senators, and all three have exactly zero chance of seeing the light of day. They will likely be refused in committee. While we’ve become a bit of a purple state in the last couple decades, we Are still mostly R-ed, and this legislation won’t get any support except from the idiots that introduced it.
And oh yes, my County Supervisors, (Yavapai) voted unanimously to declare ourselves a 2A Sanctuary County. I believe at least 4 Arizona Counties have done it so far.
That’s a good thing UncaWalt because Bradshaw and Aronberg et al are not about to allow PBC to join the half of Fla’s 67 counties that have become 2A sanctuaries.
OTOH our new Trumpesque governor has successfully banned illegal immigrant “sanctuaries”. Now he/we need to work on some of the dumbass knee jerk damage done under his predecessor Scott, now a senator.
February 11, 2020 at 2:32 pm
Hotrod Lincoln
My home county in rural Tennessee just declared itself to be a 2A sanctuary. Doesn’t surprise me at all, given the makeup of the Board of Supervisors and the Sheriff we have. It’s also good news for the informal shooting match I’ve been hosting on Memorial Day weekend for the members of a major outdoor magazine’s internet forum for the past 15 years! It sounds like a young war is going on for a couple of days!
WHY is the commenting software telling me the I am “Posting too fast, slow down” when I try to make the first comment I have issued in at least a WEEK?!?!?
Speaking of those psych evaluations of sworn officers- – – – -how often were they diagnosed as being so hopelessly paranoid that the only way they were comfortable with going out in public was with a badge, a gun, a uniform, and tacit permission by a government agency to intimidate and harass his/her fellow citizens?
Actually, the psychs hated cops about as much as the average leftist radical of the Sixties. Apparently, it was “conventional wisdom” in the psych community at the time that you pretty much had to be Abbie Hoffman to be defined as “sane”.
Here is an Arizonan view of SB1625 that I would like to share. While I am not the person in this video, he does cover my views, but with a wee bit more potty language than I use. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uezDB-FLb7s
52 Comments
Eleven Democrat senators sponsoring it. If Arizona passes that bill they’re stupider than New York!
I think it will die in committee.
Passing a law is one thing. EnFORCEing it is another thing entirely. Funny how our would-be masters forget that 1) all compliance is voluntary and ) the ratio of chiefs to indians will always favor the indians. They also forget that though we are unorganized and un/under armed, as Stalin so succinctly put it, “Quantity has a quality all its own.”
It’s not all firearms though. It’s scary-looking semiautomatics, pistols that take more than ten rounds, and certain other scary-looking arms (i.e., “assault weapons”).
Stupid law.
It’s any firearm worth the name.
It’s Bloomberg’s money… and IT SHALL NOT PASS.
An “assault weapon” is whatever the Fearless Leaders say is an “assault weapon”. See “Saturday Night Special”.
Frank Herbert said that “he who can destroy a thing, controls a thing”.
He forgot to mention that “he who can define a thing, can destroy a thing”.
clear ether
eon
By definition a revolver is a ‘semi-automatic’. One trigger pull = one bullet. I actually saw a guy shoot 5 separate 6 shot revolvers faster than another could empty a 30 round mag. and he picked them up one at a time.
A major reason Mosby’s men carried four to six revolvers.
So did Quatrill’s
Jerry Miculek. This is almost unbelievable!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzHG-ibZaKM
Mic is a god.
Jerry Miculek?
One of THE greatest shooters in history.
Prior to that was Ed McGivern, author of “Fast & Fancy Revolver Shooting” who once put five shots into a space the size of a silver half dollar in 0.45 seconds, from a range of 15 feet, and also was able to empty two revolvers in less than two seconds.
Like everything with a basis in reason and good intent this is seized on and subverted to their own agenda of criminalization, confiscation, and control.
The only answer is reverting to due process as Zed says. Law enforcement is necessarily reactive and complaint driven. Any attempt at proactive steps will be twisted and taken advantage of to deny Constitutional rights, and protecting those trumps any potential bad behavior because gov at every level just cannot be trusted.
Except that I see no evidence of reason or good intent here. Simply the inevitable lust for power characteristic of “progressives”.
clear ether
eon
Goes to your “define to destroy” thing.
None of us would prefer individuals representing clear and present danger to possess the means to inflict it…but who decides and how to prevent it?
So there ya go…a basic protection order is inevitably twisted into a tool to subvert rights and process, and expanded to do the same to every citizen who in their eyes presents that danger by simply possessing a firearm.
And so as I said no prior intervention can work and we just have to wait until harm is done by the few in order to protect the rights of the many.
That is unfortunate because it enables things like happened here in little Sebring Fl exactly one year ago wherein a 20-something psychopath was sent by his dad in Indiana to his mom here. All parties knew he was unstable and on the verge of a crackup but he walked into the gun store across from my office, passed his NICS, waited his three days and picked up his Ruger 9mm. Then two days later he walked into the SunTrust branch a mile from my home not to rob it but purely to lay out the five ladies there all in a row and methodically blow holes in their heads one by one, killing them all and then calling 911 and giving up peacefully.
A rare incident to be sure but of course that is of little consolation to the families, or to the psyche of the community, to Sun bank which tore down a two million dollar building and turned it into a memorial park, or of course to taxpayers who will pay millions to prosecute, house and feed the POS for the rest of his wretched life.
Yet that is the price we must pay to prevent those with an evil agenda from disarming and enslaving us all. Just have to wait for the next crazy, and the next one, and sacrifice more innocent lives and untold treasure to avoid sacrificing our own rights and freedom and our Free Republic itself instead of having the ability to remove monsters from our midst.
Yeah, there’s human reasoning and good intent at the root of so-called red-flag laws; too bad that is not allowed in the world of those who ironically themselves should be classified as deranged and capable and intent on evil and destruction.
“None of us would prefer individuals representing clear and present danger to possess the means to inflict it”
Well, that’s the rationale right there, isn’t it? To the Ds, any gun owner *is* such an individual, no?
One of the problems we used to have in law enforcement was the standard twice-yearly psych eval for sworn officers.
The problem was the fact that at least half of the psychologists hired by the state to do it defined anybody who wanted to wear a uniform and carry a weapon for a living as dangerously insane.
At the same time, they would refuse to sign off on putting somebody like a serial rapist under psych eval because they were “just seeing the world through different eyes” and everyone should be “valuing their insights”.
In one case, the psychs refused a family’s plea to have their 17-year-old son committed for two years. Until he murdered two women, kidnapped a 13-year-old girl, and raped her repeatedly for six days before he was apprehended.
BTW, the “deadly assault weapon” he used to commit the murders was a single-blade Barlow jack-knife.
clear ether
eon
And he could just as well have used a hammer, or a rock, or a lamp cord. Careful though with the old “everything is a murder tool” meme…it’s a double edged sword (as it were) that invites the antis to use your words against you to retort, “Then you don’t need a gun for self-defense, you can just use your Boy Scout knife.”
Imagine what would have happened if they went after flintlocks.
Wait. They did in 1775. Lexington and Concord happened.
History repeats itself. Is there any Sacred Honor …
That’s probably why flintlocks are not subject to federal firearms laws and regulations. It didn’t work out too well the last time a sovereign tried.
There is sacred honor. It is not well dispersed across these 50 states; but I think you will find higher concentrations in the areas where land ownership is not joint ownership of the common area in your apartment complex.
History may not repeat but it does rhyme.
There is not, in the halls of power. For all power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
When they come for your guns, give them the ammo first- – – -one well-aimed round at a time!
I think it is time for Virginia and Arizona to be secceeded from the union… by force. Just revoke their statehood and remove them from any benefits of Federal Dollars. Both get to be territories again… and reapplication for statehood is predicated specifically on them becoming compliant with the US constitution.
To be consistent, you’d have to do that to the whole country – and start with California, NY, and Massachusetts first.
Last I heard the New California movement was coming back.
All Counties except Los Angeles, Sacramento, San Francisco, Marin, San Mateo and Alameda. Part of LA would be carved out as Rural LA and go with New California. I know most Californians are past pissed off.
A California “in play” would be the Mother of All October Surprises. Use to be Reagan Country… could happen again, given the implosion of the TDS syndicate,,,
Properly apply the 14th Amendment and maybe 40% of California would be sent packing out of the USA. Harsh? Yes. By the law? Yes.
DNC Chair Tom Perez might be one sent to nation that he is subject to the jurisdiction of. And it’s not the USA.
Definitions and meanings of words again.
And all those someone desires to make a victim of, are the, in fact, first responders. Then comes any others.
The American was and is always the first responder. It is part of our God given rights.
In the United States, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimated roughly 1.7 million hospital-associated infections, from all types of microorganisms, including bacteria and fungi combined, cause or contribute to 99,000 deaths each year.
Substance abuse contributes to far more than the recognized half of the annual death toll of traffic accidents.
But the only way our Bee-Luvved Gummint can think of to “Do It For The Children™” or “Just Save One Life™” is to further infringe on the rights of citizens with laws that do nothing to inhibit criminals and wanna-be mass murderers.
Really?
The CDC was prohibited by Congress from doing “public health” research on civilian-owned firearms in the 1990s. This was after Bill Clinton’s newly-appointed director of same said that their objective was to define such arms as “dirty, deadly, and banned”.
Their methodology was the same as that used to “prove climate change”. Start with the objective (outlaw guns) and then cherry-pick data to support the objective (see ‘confirmation bias”).
Now the House Democrats want that ban lifted. And CDC is run by an Obama appointee.
Three guesses what they’ll demand in the name of “public health”.
Ironically, CDC is one of the more useless Federal agencies. They do very little actual research on communicable diseases. Most of their data comes from USAMRIID, the United States Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases, at Fort Detrick, MD. Which the “progressives” have been trying to shut down since it opened in 1969, because they think it exists to create weaponized viruses for biological warfare.
Everybody likes to quote the part of Eisenhower’s 17 Jan 1961 Farewell Address about the “military-industrial complex”. They never quote his next, and far more important, three paragraphs;
Just something to think about.
clear ether
eon
“The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.”
Mencken
So maybe besides Solhenitzen we should read up on the Jews resistance in the Warsaw ghetto. They started basically unarmed as did Stalin’s victims.
Damn straight!….Time to see the waste of more of Bloomberg’s billions….pompous ass is too kind for this pompous ass….
The novel “unintended Consequences” illustrates the resistance of the Warsaw Ghetto. Lots of recent history used for background and scene setting.
This brain-dead Legislation is also dead on arrival. There are 3 bills being submitted. SB 1624, which bans private gun transactions and limits free movement with a firearm. SB 1625, which makes it illegal to own an ‘assault’ weapon unless you register it yearly and bans high cap magazines. And SB 1626, a ‘red flag law’ prohibiting ‘Respondents’ to an Order of Protection hearing from possessing a firearm or ammunition.
All 3 were submitted by the same 9 Democrat State Senators, and all three have exactly zero chance of seeing the light of day. They will likely be refused in committee. While we’ve become a bit of a purple state in the last couple decades, we Are still mostly R-ed, and this legislation won’t get any support except from the idiots that introduced it.
And oh yes, my County Supervisors, (Yavapai) voted unanimously to declare ourselves a 2A Sanctuary County. I believe at least 4 Arizona Counties have done it so far.
My house and my person are 2A Sanctuary Country.
That’s a good thing UncaWalt because Bradshaw and Aronberg et al are not about to allow PBC to join the half of Fla’s 67 counties that have become 2A sanctuaries.
OTOH our new Trumpesque governor has successfully banned illegal immigrant “sanctuaries”. Now he/we need to work on some of the dumbass knee jerk damage done under his predecessor Scott, now a senator.
My home county in rural Tennessee just declared itself to be a 2A sanctuary. Doesn’t surprise me at all, given the makeup of the Board of Supervisors and the Sheriff we have. It’s also good news for the informal shooting match I’ve been hosting on Memorial Day weekend for the members of a major outdoor magazine’s internet forum for the past 15 years! It sounds like a young war is going on for a couple of days!
Here in NM, 30 of 33 counties have declared themselves 2A Sanctuaries.
And I have always loved the phrase “with extreme prejudice”.
WHY is the commenting software telling me the I am “Posting too fast, slow down” when I try to make the first comment I have issued in at least a WEEK?!?!?
It does the same thing to me. Frequently. My 1751 post is one I tried to make at 0815 this AM.
cheers
eon
no idea, sorry. damn tech.
Yes, that hits me out of the blue nowhere every so often. I just pause a second and resubmit. No Problem.
HAH! It just did it on that comment!
Speaking of those psych evaluations of sworn officers- – – – -how often were they diagnosed as being so hopelessly paranoid that the only way they were comfortable with going out in public was with a badge, a gun, a uniform, and tacit permission by a government agency to intimidate and harass his/her fellow citizens?
Actually, the psychs hated cops about as much as the average leftist radical of the Sixties. Apparently, it was “conventional wisdom” in the psych community at the time that you pretty much had to be Abbie Hoffman to be defined as “sane”.
cheers
eon
The novel “unintended Consequences” illustrates the resistance of the Warsaw Ghetto. Lots of recent history used for background and scene setting.
Here is an Arizonan view of SB1625 that I would like to share. While I am not the person in this video, he does cover my views, but with a wee bit more potty language than I use.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uezDB-FLb7s