Trying hard not to be depressed about Trump’s Crybaby McTurtle statement. For one, it seems to accept the Nov. 3 terror attack as a fait accompli (let’s move on..) and two, it implies PDT will support Republicans in 2022. Nothing could possibly be more crucial for the very existence of a free America than that the election attack is fully exposed, the fake “results” overturned in at least 6 States (all 50 were severely tainted) and The Coup imprisoned, after which a new party MUST be formed to crush the GOP (now undeniably turncoat, compromised, anti-MAGA and pro-Dim). If PDT has indeed lost his mojo (or if it was, uh, removed from him…) – well, we’re in a scary new universe from the one we’ve believed in since 2015. Part of me still hopes he hasn’t caved in to the threats from Mordor DC, but we desperately need a Sign, as each new day devoured by The Coup is darker than the last.
Royal Manticoran Navy. Part of the Honor Harrington series of books. The navy has a period where tens of thousands of missiles being launched by one side in the war the series revolves around were the norm. If you would like to pick it up the mainline series is complete. We are just waiting on the final sideline book.
February 17, 2021 at 9:23 am
eon
Royal Manticoran Navy. See the Honor Harrington novels by David Weber.
President Elect Toxic Deplorable Racist SAH B Woodman Domestic Violent Extremist
I hope Baen’s Bar told Mr Sanford to stuff it just before they cancelled “him” (questionable genetics). Idiots need to learn that Cancel Culture can cut both ways.
“It’s a poor atom blaster that won’t point both ways”, Isaac Asimov, “Foundation”.
I think he’s trying for the Harlan Ellison style of writing career.
Ellison once tried to “cancel” entire U.S. states for refusing to ratify the Equal Rights Amendment.
He repeatedly demanded that the Second Amendment be “canceled”.
If you called him a “Science Fiction Writer” within his hearing he would likely attack you physically.
He sued James Cameron over The Terminator, claiming that it was a ripoff of his TV treatment “Soldier” from The Outer Limits (1965). (In fact, Terminator owed considerably more to “Fondly Fahrenheit” by Alfred Bester and “Home is the Hangman” by Roger Zelazny. Neither of them thought anything of it.)
The thing is, Ellison (1934-2018) was a talented writer who just happened to have a chip on his shoulder on about every subject under the sun.
Sanford seems to be at best a moderately good writer who knows the SF market in magazines today goes for “Humans are so awful”-type stories. The kind that pretty much sank Analog when Stanley Schmidt was editor.
The fact that magazines (edited and published in NYC) are still churning out issues full of such stories, and looking at rapidly-shrinking circulation, seems not to be registering on the publishers.
Sanford apparently “knows his market”- at least as far as what editors like to see.
At Baen’s Bar he apparently encounters people who don’t share his enlightened worldview. And he just won’t stand for that, anymore than Ellison would.
The question is, is he a good enough writer that people will be willing to put up with his measures of shit over the long haul- just to see what he writes next?
That was Ellison’s “secret”. Sanford better hope that it’s his, too.
My understanding is he has written short stories only. Baen took the Bar down because their internet service providers were being pressured to cancel their contracts with Baen because the posts on the bar were so “awful.” Baen, like many other companies whose presence on the web is a large part of business, couldn’t risk it. Sanford seems like a typical SJW cry-bully. A pox on him. He’s claiming “death threats” which is not inconceivable being as he undoubtedly irritated a number of Kratman and Williamson fans. That was a dumb move on his part.
It’s kind of amazing that they would go after Baen who publishes authors from all political perspectives from radical libertarian to avowedly Communist. The only criterion is that they write good stories. I guess Sanford didn’t qualify.
February 17, 2021 at 3:42 pm
eon
Ellison wrote short stories, too. Although to judge from the Ellison collections I have (pretty much all of them), most of his writing consisted of him whining about how this huge “talent” had “taken over his life”. Plus op-eds on subjects he was irritated about (most of the human experience, from all indications).
If I had one-tenth of his “talent” (which was actually pretty significant) I wouldn’t be complaining. I’d be too busy writing actual stories.
No, memory of how well their cancellation of everything not commie has worked and how impotent or apathetic we are about it allows that organized theft and destruction to continue until *somebody* finally says no…by one method or another.
February 17, 2021 at 12:54 am
Justin M. Herald
No, Ms. Weiskopf, the publisher at Baen, has closed the bar temporarily while they investigate whether the accusations are true. Us Barflies are of differing opinions on whether this is a good idea or not. Some think it’s preparatory work for a full on slander suit against this Jason fellow, others not. I think it was a mistake as “once you pay the danegeld, you will never be rid of the dane.” But that’s just me. You can go over to the bar and Toni has a very nice explanation of her stance on this.
The Process is the Punishment. Just as with the Persecuter in our jurisdiction. He got in on a “racist” platform and he knows his audience.
In this case, I suspect the Kavenaugh Gambit. He has been creditably accused X times, therefore he must be guilty. Plus it isn’t what the posters actually said, it is because they were not screaming to condemn President Trump, therefore “Guilty”. Something about “Silence is Violence”. They are looking for the first to “stop clapping”. They changed the jargon but it is the old same-O, same-O, and they have their own “special” Uncle Joe, a/k/a “Snuffles”.
‘the first to stop clapping’ exactly! what was the record (mentioned in naked communist or witness or somewhere) 2 hours the idiots went on? people were dropping dead and passing out. what nightmare
I read a lot of science fiction. I’ve never heard of Jason Sanford. His web page claims he is a science fiction writer. Yet I’ve never seen a single book or story that he’s authored. He claims membership in a writer’s group I’ve never heard of. In other words he may want to be a writer but he has pretty much ruined any prospects of succeeding. No publisher will want to look at his work; fearing he’ll pull the same stunt with them.
If he really encountered someone advocating something criminal as he claims the appropriate response would have been to notify Baen and let them deal with it rather than writing a polemic accusing Baen of encouraging such activities. I wouldn’t even be surprised if Baen discovers that Mr. Sanford posted the alleged offending material himself. The old cop in me suspects that Baen probably turned down one or more of his submissions.
When Baen gets to the bottom of this, and they will, I feel that they should use every legal avenue of redress. It doesn’t matter if he works at Burger Doodie and still lives in someone’s basement. File criminal charges if appropriate. Sue him for defamation and damages. Obtain a court order directing him to never attempt to contact Baen, submit his work to Baen under any name or use Baen websites again.
From what I’m hearing some Rando Poster went into the bar a few weeks ago and gave some vague “You guys stop being Meanies You Meanies!!” BS post, ending it with a cute little “You have been Warned”…the sole response was unmuted laughter…SUDDENLY Some Brand New Rando comes in and Starts making posts that Sanford “Discovered”. Then to Top it all off, Some OTHER Douchetastic Dimwit, who’s claim to fame is making EVERY controversy about himself and playing Victim after talking tough and getting slapped Down, goes and Threatens Sanford.. Obliquely admittedly, but it’s enough now to give the Jagoff Credence.
I do not suffer fools gladly. We now are infested with those that claim offense at any thing their feeble little mind chooses. All the rest of our society is now required to bow and scrape in apology and beg for any purposely withheld forgiveness for the slightest hint of dissatisfaction. Yet, the same special snowflakes are not “triggered” by the same, similar or worse words if they are mentioned by someone they feel a relationship to. Somehow the thought of a real good beating occurs to me.
Many have lost the ability to hear something that disagrees with their world view and…continue on with their lives. Instead, their participation-trophy worldview must be validated in order for them to know they are approved of because they’ve never seen winners and losers, thus can’t tell the difference.
Perchance this Sanford person covets something he will never possess. Talent. Is it that he is not a likable person? Or expects to be treated as a hero all the while brandishing a paper sword. The Green Eyed Monster must reside within him.
All others must be vanquished so he may present his .02 cents of worth.
Currently, the Bar is down, but will be back. Count on that. The message by Toni Weisskopf(Referred to as a ‘woman enabling White Male Supremacy’ by one supporter of Sanford, posted the following;
“To Whom It May Concern:
What is it we do at Baen Books? We publish books at the heart of science fiction and fantasy.
Science fiction has traditionally been a unique kind of intellectual pleasure, a process of glorious intercommunication and inspiration, with ideas flowing from scientist and engineer to writer and artist, to reader and viewer, back and forth, in a delightful mélange of shared thoughts, wild speculation, cautionary tales, reality checks, and the sheer fun of playing with boundaries and ideas. It is not for everyone. But those who enjoy it, take great pleasure in the dialogue.
When the modern form of SF began, with Hugo Gernsback and the other pulp magazines of the early 20th century, the publishers fostered that interaction through letter columns in the magazines and by encouraging science fiction readers to organize in clubs and meet in conventions. Baen Books continued that tradition with Baen’s Bar, a kind of virtual convention and on-line conversation that has been around in some form for over 20 years.
The moderators are volunteers. The readers, editors, and writers post and interact on the Bar at their own desire. Some conversations have been gone over so many times, they’ve been retired as simply too boring to contemplate again. Sometimes the rhetoric can get heated. We do not endorse the publication of unlawful speech. We have received no complaints about the content of the Bar from its users.
That said, it has come to our attention that allegations about the Bar have been made elsewhere. We take these allegations seriously, and consequently have put the Bar on hiatus while we investigate. But we will not commit censorship of lawful speech.
It is not Baen Books’ policy to police the opinions of its readers, its authors, its artists, its editors, or indeed anyone else. This applies to posts at the Bar, or on social media, on their own websites, or indeed anywhere else. On the Bar, the publisher does not select what is allowed to be posted, and does not hijack an individual’s messages for their own purposes. Similarly, the posts do not represent the publisher’s opinion, except in a deep belief that free speech is worthy in and of itself.
Most sincerely,
Toni Weisskopf
Publisher”
So Baen’s Bar will not become an Echo Chamber for the DNC/PLD.
I… Am James/G. And I can tell you straight out that Jason Sanford lied by Omission, misrepresentation, and taking things way out of Context. As an example, his mention of ‘The Swarthy Menace’ comments? The individual those are about takes immense pride in them, and also happens to be one of the most highly respected Members of the Bar. What makes this so significant, is after bemoaning this fellow being ‘Abused’ by us white meanies, Sanford turned around and attacked arun.tblp(aka ‘The Swarthy Menace’)for racist comments! That’s right, called him a big white meanie racist. And did so knowing it.
Please transmit the above via Facebook to your friends, or other platform if you’re worried about being banned from FB for spreading the truth.
Thank you Chris Muir for the Comic. I’m sure tens of thousands will see it at least.
Well, it looks like at least a few of the Bar Flies will be hanging out here every now and then. Ladies, Don’t accept candy from Evilned, and don’t try to take crayons away from, or lick, Pugmak. At least not until you update your shots. 🙂
I believe that once Toni finds some ISPs with stronger willpower, the Bar will be back. Please feel free to come by and visit the many Tables(Author Chat rooms, where authors do show up) We Every sort of writer, truly covering the entire spectrum Left to Right, and unlike other platforms, the Bar is Not and Never has been, an Echo Chamber.
32 Comments
Babies vomit formula all over everything.
Same thing Cocaine Mitch did
Trump squashed that bug today
Trying hard not to be depressed about Trump’s Crybaby McTurtle statement. For one, it seems to accept the Nov. 3 terror attack as a fait accompli (let’s move on..) and two, it implies PDT will support Republicans in 2022. Nothing could possibly be more crucial for the very existence of a free America than that the election attack is fully exposed, the fake “results” overturned in at least 6 States (all 50 were severely tainted) and The Coup imprisoned, after which a new party MUST be formed to crush the GOP (now undeniably turncoat, compromised, anti-MAGA and pro-Dim). If PDT has indeed lost his mojo (or if it was, uh, removed from him…) – well, we’re in a scary new universe from the one we’ve believed in since 2015. Part of me still hopes he hasn’t caved in to the threats from Mordor DC, but we desperately need a Sign, as each new day devoured by The Coup is darker than the last.
I’m sure he’s locked or deleted his social media presence by now.
Incoming RMN missile launches are overwhelming.
I’m so old I immediately translated that to Richard Milhous Nixon. What’s it mean today?
Royal Manticoran Navy. Part of the Honor Harrington series of books. The navy has a period where tens of thousands of missiles being launched by one side in the war the series revolves around were the norm. If you would like to pick it up the mainline series is complete. We are just waiting on the final sideline book.
Royal Manticoran Navy. See the Honor Harrington novels by David Weber.
Also check this out;
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MacrossMissileMassacre
AKA “Manticoran Missile Massacre”.
clear ether
eon
Read them all. I thought I was the only one.
I hope Baen’s Bar told Mr Sanford to stuff it just before they cancelled “him” (questionable genetics). Idiots need to learn that Cancel Culture can cut both ways.
“It’s a poor atom blaster that won’t point both ways”, Isaac Asimov, “Foundation”.
I think he’s trying for the Harlan Ellison style of writing career.
Ellison once tried to “cancel” entire U.S. states for refusing to ratify the Equal Rights Amendment.
He repeatedly demanded that the Second Amendment be “canceled”.
If you called him a “Science Fiction Writer” within his hearing he would likely attack you physically.
He sued James Cameron over The Terminator, claiming that it was a ripoff of his TV treatment “Soldier” from The Outer Limits (1965). (In fact, Terminator owed considerably more to “Fondly Fahrenheit” by Alfred Bester and “Home is the Hangman” by Roger Zelazny. Neither of them thought anything of it.)
The thing is, Ellison (1934-2018) was a talented writer who just happened to have a chip on his shoulder on about every subject under the sun.
Sanford seems to be at best a moderately good writer who knows the SF market in magazines today goes for “Humans are so awful”-type stories. The kind that pretty much sank Analog when Stanley Schmidt was editor.
The fact that magazines (edited and published in NYC) are still churning out issues full of such stories, and looking at rapidly-shrinking circulation, seems not to be registering on the publishers.
Sanford apparently “knows his market”- at least as far as what editors like to see.
At Baen’s Bar he apparently encounters people who don’t share his enlightened worldview. And he just won’t stand for that, anymore than Ellison would.
The question is, is he a good enough writer that people will be willing to put up with his measures of shit over the long haul- just to see what he writes next?
That was Ellison’s “secret”. Sanford better hope that it’s his, too.
clear ether
eon
My understanding is he has written short stories only. Baen took the Bar down because their internet service providers were being pressured to cancel their contracts with Baen because the posts on the bar were so “awful.” Baen, like many other companies whose presence on the web is a large part of business, couldn’t risk it. Sanford seems like a typical SJW cry-bully. A pox on him. He’s claiming “death threats” which is not inconceivable being as he undoubtedly irritated a number of Kratman and Williamson fans. That was a dumb move on his part.
It’s kind of amazing that they would go after Baen who publishes authors from all political perspectives from radical libertarian to avowedly Communist. The only criterion is that they write good stories. I guess Sanford didn’t qualify.
Ellison wrote short stories, too. Although to judge from the Ellison collections I have (pretty much all of them), most of his writing consisted of him whining about how this huge “talent” had “taken over his life”. Plus op-eds on subjects he was irritated about (most of the human experience, from all indications).
If I had one-tenth of his “talent” (which was actually pretty significant) I wouldn’t be complaining. I’d be too busy writing actual stories.
cheers
eon
Talent? This… Is Talent;
https://www.newyorker.com/humor/daily-shouts/ernest-hemingways-six-word-sequels
Funny.
But that formula works.
Over and over and over again.
Why the fuck is that?
Memory Loss is Why.
Do the same thing every time.
Expect a different outcome.
Throw a Hissy fit.
No, memory of how well their cancellation of everything not commie has worked and how impotent or apathetic we are about it allows that organized theft and destruction to continue until *somebody* finally says no…by one method or another.
No, Ms. Weiskopf, the publisher at Baen, has closed the bar temporarily while they investigate whether the accusations are true. Us Barflies are of differing opinions on whether this is a good idea or not. Some think it’s preparatory work for a full on slander suit against this Jason fellow, others not. I think it was a mistake as “once you pay the danegeld, you will never be rid of the dane.” But that’s just me. You can go over to the bar and Toni has a very nice explanation of her stance on this.
The Process is the Punishment. Just as with the Persecuter in our jurisdiction. He got in on a “racist” platform and he knows his audience.
In this case, I suspect the Kavenaugh Gambit. He has been creditably accused X times, therefore he must be guilty. Plus it isn’t what the posters actually said, it is because they were not screaming to condemn President Trump, therefore “Guilty”. Something about “Silence is Violence”. They are looking for the first to “stop clapping”. They changed the jargon but it is the old same-O, same-O, and they have their own “special” Uncle Joe, a/k/a “Snuffles”.
‘the first to stop clapping’ exactly! what was the record (mentioned in naked communist or witness or somewhere) 2 hours the idiots went on? people were dropping dead and passing out. what nightmare
The amusing thing is that this Jason Sanford character even LOOKS like Central Casting’s Idea of a Hypersensitive Lefty Twitch! lol
I read a lot of science fiction. I’ve never heard of Jason Sanford. His web page claims he is a science fiction writer. Yet I’ve never seen a single book or story that he’s authored. He claims membership in a writer’s group I’ve never heard of. In other words he may want to be a writer but he has pretty much ruined any prospects of succeeding. No publisher will want to look at his work; fearing he’ll pull the same stunt with them.
If he really encountered someone advocating something criminal as he claims the appropriate response would have been to notify Baen and let them deal with it rather than writing a polemic accusing Baen of encouraging such activities. I wouldn’t even be surprised if Baen discovers that Mr. Sanford posted the alleged offending material himself. The old cop in me suspects that Baen probably turned down one or more of his submissions.
When Baen gets to the bottom of this, and they will, I feel that they should use every legal avenue of redress. It doesn’t matter if he works at Burger Doodie and still lives in someone’s basement. File criminal charges if appropriate. Sue him for defamation and damages. Obtain a court order directing him to never attempt to contact Baen, submit his work to Baen under any name or use Baen websites again.
From what I’m hearing some Rando Poster went into the bar a few weeks ago and gave some vague “You guys stop being Meanies You Meanies!!” BS post, ending it with a cute little “You have been Warned”…the sole response was unmuted laughter…SUDDENLY Some Brand New Rando comes in and Starts making posts that Sanford “Discovered”. Then to Top it all off, Some OTHER Douchetastic Dimwit, who’s claim to fame is making EVERY controversy about himself and playing Victim after talking tough and getting slapped Down, goes and Threatens Sanford.. Obliquely admittedly, but it’s enough now to give the Jagoff Credence.
I do not suffer fools gladly. We now are infested with those that claim offense at any thing their feeble little mind chooses. All the rest of our society is now required to bow and scrape in apology and beg for any purposely withheld forgiveness for the slightest hint of dissatisfaction. Yet, the same special snowflakes are not “triggered” by the same, similar or worse words if they are mentioned by someone they feel a relationship to. Somehow the thought of a real good beating occurs to me.
Many have lost the ability to hear something that disagrees with their world view and…continue on with their lives. Instead, their participation-trophy worldview must be validated in order for them to know they are approved of because they’ve never seen winners and losers, thus can’t tell the difference.
Perchance this Sanford person covets something he will never possess. Talent. Is it that he is not a likable person? Or expects to be treated as a hero all the while brandishing a paper sword. The Green Eyed Monster must reside within him.
All others must be vanquished so he may present his .02 cents of worth.
Rush Limbaugh has passed.
Rush Limbaugh passed away today, profoundly sad about that.
Rest in peace
The world will always have the EIB vault…
‘Talent returned to God.’
Home is the Hunter…
Currently, the Bar is down, but will be back. Count on that. The message by Toni Weisskopf(Referred to as a ‘woman enabling White Male Supremacy’ by one supporter of Sanford, posted the following;
“To Whom It May Concern:
What is it we do at Baen Books? We publish books at the heart of science fiction and fantasy.
Science fiction has traditionally been a unique kind of intellectual pleasure, a process of glorious intercommunication and inspiration, with ideas flowing from scientist and engineer to writer and artist, to reader and viewer, back and forth, in a delightful mélange of shared thoughts, wild speculation, cautionary tales, reality checks, and the sheer fun of playing with boundaries and ideas. It is not for everyone. But those who enjoy it, take great pleasure in the dialogue.
When the modern form of SF began, with Hugo Gernsback and the other pulp magazines of the early 20th century, the publishers fostered that interaction through letter columns in the magazines and by encouraging science fiction readers to organize in clubs and meet in conventions. Baen Books continued that tradition with Baen’s Bar, a kind of virtual convention and on-line conversation that has been around in some form for over 20 years.
The moderators are volunteers. The readers, editors, and writers post and interact on the Bar at their own desire. Some conversations have been gone over so many times, they’ve been retired as simply too boring to contemplate again. Sometimes the rhetoric can get heated. We do not endorse the publication of unlawful speech. We have received no complaints about the content of the Bar from its users.
That said, it has come to our attention that allegations about the Bar have been made elsewhere. We take these allegations seriously, and consequently have put the Bar on hiatus while we investigate. But we will not commit censorship of lawful speech.
It is not Baen Books’ policy to police the opinions of its readers, its authors, its artists, its editors, or indeed anyone else. This applies to posts at the Bar, or on social media, on their own websites, or indeed anywhere else. On the Bar, the publisher does not select what is allowed to be posted, and does not hijack an individual’s messages for their own purposes. Similarly, the posts do not represent the publisher’s opinion, except in a deep belief that free speech is worthy in and of itself.
Most sincerely,
Toni Weisskopf
Publisher”
So Baen’s Bar will not become an Echo Chamber for the DNC/PLD.
I… Am James/G. And I can tell you straight out that Jason Sanford lied by Omission, misrepresentation, and taking things way out of Context. As an example, his mention of ‘The Swarthy Menace’ comments? The individual those are about takes immense pride in them, and also happens to be one of the most highly respected Members of the Bar. What makes this so significant, is after bemoaning this fellow being ‘Abused’ by us white meanies, Sanford turned around and attacked arun.tblp(aka ‘The Swarthy Menace’)for racist comments! That’s right, called him a big white meanie racist. And did so knowing it.
Please transmit the above via Facebook to your friends, or other platform if you’re worried about being banned from FB for spreading the truth.
Thank you Chris Muir for the Comic. I’m sure tens of thousands will see it at least.
Well, it looks like at least a few of the Bar Flies will be hanging out here every now and then. Ladies, Don’t accept candy from Evilned, and don’t try to take crayons away from, or lick, Pugmak. At least not until you update your shots. 🙂
I believe that once Toni finds some ISPs with stronger willpower, the Bar will be back. Please feel free to come by and visit the many Tables(Author Chat rooms, where authors do show up) We Every sort of writer, truly covering the entire spectrum Left to Right, and unlike other platforms, the Bar is Not and Never has been, an Echo Chamber.
When it reopens, I hope you all stop by.
Pablum
Likely his preferred diet, and what he produces.
Conclusion based upon what his comrades are doing in social media nowadays.
I Never met the guy. My assumptions in this paragraph may be incorrect.