7.62 x 51 mm NATO so I can reach out and touch someone.
But, for up close and personal, you are correct, it is the .45 ACP at 230 grains and 835 feet per second.
December 23, 2023 at 11:56 am
ULTRA-MAGA TOP DAWG JTC
It’s the caliber wars again!
.308 (AR10 and such) paired with Patton’s .45…
Versus .223 (AR15) with the omnipresent 9mm…
Gentlemen place your bets!
(Not really, it’s Christmas and as long as all my compatriots here are prepped up with any, both, or all of the above that’s what is critical coming up…)
December 23, 2023 at 1:59 pm
Oldarmourer
I mostly loaded 200gr LSWC at just over 1100fps.
It would cloverleaf at 15 yds, all day every day, no flyers unless I made one.
That was in a revolver. No pressure indications whatsoever.
Don’t try that too often in an auto unless you get a good spring kit.
My ‘social’ load was a 240gr SJHP over 7.7 of Unique
I figured all I needed was six rounds, maybe twelve out of it before it blew up and if that didn’t do the job then I was done with it either way.
December 23, 2023 at 6:49 am
Bill G
Ahh, yes. As Ma Bell used to say, Long Distance is the next best thing to being there.
President Elect Toxic Deplorable Racist SAH Neanderthal B Woodman Domestic Violent Extremist SuperStraight
Ever the last (or only) resort of the Leftist LibTard……when you can’t win on reason, merit, or facts, resort to childish name calling and stomp away in a snit.
550 grain .577 caliber Minie’ bullet- – – – -60 grains of FFg- – – -Pattern 53 Enfield rifle- – – – -with the sun at your back you can watch the projectile in flight. It hits like the hammer of Thor!
.577 Snider was a lot of fun too until the liebrals got scared and banned anything over .49 and a lot of cartridge under it like .416, etc.
Right now anything over 20mm is banned completely, 10ga shotgun is over 20mm but they can’t seem to comprehend that people might want one for hunting and 8ga is very common in industrial usage, especially for blasting slag off of crucibles in steel plants…but they want to give our steel industry to china anyway so they don’t care about that either.
December 23, 2023 at 7:17 pm
eon
Those old Civil War era arms weren’t that powerful, really.
.58 or .577 rifle-musket, 40″ or 39″ barrel, 510-gr. bullet, 60 gr. musket powder, muzzle velocity 963 F/S, muzzle energy 1,050 foot-pounds. (About that of M193 .5.56mm 55-gr. ball in the M16.)
.58 M1841 rifle (rebored from .54), 34″ barrel, same load, 914 F/S, muzzle energy 946 foot-pounds. (About equal to the 110-grain .30 Carbine load in the M1 Carbine.)
.58 M1858 pistol-carbine, 12″ barrel, 468-gr. bullet, 40 gr. musket powder, muzzle velocity 603 F/S, muzzle energy 378 foot-pounds. (About as powerful as a .45 ACP or 9 x 19mm service load.)
It wasn’t so much the energy, which those loads just didn’t have, but what those big, heavy bullets could do to flesh and bone regardless of velocity.
It’s the difference between getting hit with a baseball- or a bowling ball.
see;
Edwards, William B. Civil War Guns, Stackpole, 1962.
Yes, but you’ll get the beatings, fire, prison and death even if you give them their way.
It’s just delayed to their next moving of the goalposts.
The entire philosophy of ‘progressivism” is
We are perfect. We deserve to rule.
Obey us or we will kill you.
But even if you do obey us, we reserve our privilege to kill you at some time in the future if it would amuse us to do so.
Once someone has power, and convinces themselves that they are God, there is no longer any reasoning at work. Just a lust for even more power, plus the realization that they can indulge their lusts and fantasies with no fear of consequences.
This is why every “progressive” state eventually ends up looking like Zimbabwe.
Re your seventh paragraph: That is precisely why Mohammad created Islam.
It is also why I maintain that Islam is a system of government masquerading as a religion, while Communism is a religion masquerading as a system of government. Both need complete erasure . . .
December 23, 2023 at 12:29 pm
MasterDiver
“We are perfect. We deserve to rule.
Obey us or we will kill you.
But even if you do obey us, we reserve our privilege to kill you at some time in the future if it would amuse us to do so.”
Sounds like a certain “Religion of Peace”!
Zar Belk!
December 23, 2023 at 7:28 pm
eon
@ John T. Egbert
And “environmentalism” is a pseudo-religious cult masquerading as “science”. One devoted to primitivism, socialist “feudalism”, and the “culling” of the human “herd”.
Most people don’t know that “environmentalism” grew out of the 1950’s “UFO contactee” movement, which in its turn began when in 1945, academic elitists realized that thanks to B-29s and A-bombs, starting foreign wars was no longer a safe “spectator sport”.
Look up “Donald M. Ware”, an academic elitist and “UFO contactee” bigwig who became a major architect of the “environmental movement” in the early 1970s. And incidentally, a close associate of Richard Nixon.
cheers
eon
December 23, 2023 at 9:57 am
Son Of A Valkyrie
At the carwashes, I assume Four Points Tequila will be served?
Yeah, that’s the left’s strategy alright: “we’re right, you’re wrong.” They take it on faith that their truth is the “real” truth. And yet when WE take thing on faith, like, well… faith, we’re shouted down as superstitious cave-dwellers.
My original Pattern 53 3 band rifle carries Birmingham England proofmarks from 1860. It came to me from a bazaar in Kabul Afghanistan, thanks to a young friend who was stationed there with the Tennessee Army National Guard. After a thorough cleanup and a little restoration work, it occupies an honored place on the mantle over our fireplace. It’s an homage to my Confederate ancestors who carried similar arms during the yankee invasion. On occasion, it still gets taken to the deer woods out back, where it still proves to be fully functional and deadly with home-cast Minie’ bullets.
I got an India Pattern Brown Bess from from one of my officers who went to Afghanistan. He was retired Active and then-SF reserve and was called up immediately on 9-11. I was his SGT. He came in 9-12 already with his hair cut military style. I told him to keep his hat on and I would keep our staff weenie Captain off his tail.
We set up so that our crew would take care of his yard for his wife and were on call if anything needed fixing. When he got back from his deployment, he asked me to come to his place because he had something for me. When I got there, he gave me the Brown Bess. He had found it in an Al Quada arms cache mixed among modern weapons. It was old enough that there was no problem bringing it home.
36 Comments
Hardees/Carl’s Jr.- – – – -Paris Hilton- – – – -car wash- – – – -betcha they could sell a lot more burgers with Sam as their spokesmodel!
The “Golden Silence” remains a powerful negotiating tool.
Particularly when the possibility exists that it may be punctuated with 175 grains of copper jacketed lead at 2,600 feet per second.
175 gr? What caliber are you shooting? That’s light for a 45ACP. And fast, too.
B. Woodman,
7.62 x 51 mm NATO so I can reach out and touch someone.
But, for up close and personal, you are correct, it is the .45 ACP at 230 grains and 835 feet per second.
It’s the caliber wars again!
.308 (AR10 and such) paired with Patton’s .45…
Versus .223 (AR15) with the omnipresent 9mm…
Gentlemen place your bets!
(Not really, it’s Christmas and as long as all my compatriots here are prepped up with any, both, or all of the above that’s what is critical coming up…)
I mostly loaded 200gr LSWC at just over 1100fps.
It would cloverleaf at 15 yds, all day every day, no flyers unless I made one.
That was in a revolver. No pressure indications whatsoever.
Don’t try that too often in an auto unless you get a good spring kit.
My ‘social’ load was a 240gr SJHP over 7.7 of Unique
I figured all I needed was six rounds, maybe twelve out of it before it blew up and if that didn’t do the job then I was done with it either way.
Ahh, yes. As Ma Bell used to say, Long Distance is the next best thing to being there.
Ever the last (or only) resort of the Leftist LibTard……when you can’t win on reason, merit, or facts, resort to childish name calling and stomp away in a snit.
I didn’t think the rantapotomus would actually “demean” itself to debate.
In my experience, the progressive definition of reasoned debate is “STFU or else”.
clear ether
eon
Much like the leftard definition of compromise, “I tell you what I want and you give it to me.”
Just like their concept of “compromise” is “Be reasonable. Do it MY way!”
Zar Belk!
“rantapotomus”………How fitting and appropriate. I am soooo stealing that one! (giving credit, of course)
@resolute
I kind-of-sort-of borrowed it from John Ringo. “Dependapotamus”.
Black Tide Rising novel series # 4; Strands of Sorrow.
cheers
eon
…and then pay a judge somewhere else to say you won without even running.
550 grain .577 caliber Minie’ bullet- – – – -60 grains of FFg- – – -Pattern 53 Enfield rifle- – – – -with the sun at your back you can watch the projectile in flight. It hits like the hammer of Thor!
Hotrod Lincoln,
Can’t touch that.
Best I can do is 177 grain lead round ball with 100 grains of black powder in a flintlock Kentucky Long rifle. Accurate to 300 yards.
There is a certain pride and satisfaction that comes from using proven, artesianal, methods.
.577 Snider was a lot of fun too until the liebrals got scared and banned anything over .49 and a lot of cartridge under it like .416, etc.
Right now anything over 20mm is banned completely, 10ga shotgun is over 20mm but they can’t seem to comprehend that people might want one for hunting and 8ga is very common in industrial usage, especially for blasting slag off of crucibles in steel plants…but they want to give our steel industry to china anyway so they don’t care about that either.
Those old Civil War era arms weren’t that powerful, really.
.58 or .577 rifle-musket, 40″ or 39″ barrel, 510-gr. bullet, 60 gr. musket powder, muzzle velocity 963 F/S, muzzle energy 1,050 foot-pounds. (About that of M193 .5.56mm 55-gr. ball in the M16.)
.58 M1841 rifle (rebored from .54), 34″ barrel, same load, 914 F/S, muzzle energy 946 foot-pounds. (About equal to the 110-grain .30 Carbine load in the M1 Carbine.)
.58 M1858 pistol-carbine, 12″ barrel, 468-gr. bullet, 40 gr. musket powder, muzzle velocity 603 F/S, muzzle energy 378 foot-pounds. (About as powerful as a .45 ACP or 9 x 19mm service load.)
It wasn’t so much the energy, which those loads just didn’t have, but what those big, heavy bullets could do to flesh and bone regardless of velocity.
It’s the difference between getting hit with a baseball- or a bowling ball.
see;
Edwards, William B. Civil War Guns, Stackpole, 1962.
https://ia803206.us.archive.org/33/items/Civil_War_Guns/Civil_War_Guns.pdf
cheers
eon
Now do .50-110.
550 gr….
IIRC, that’s heavy even for a 45-70 Govt.
Farmers place rings in a pig’s snout to discourage it from digging under the fence and escaping. Failed in this case.
45-70 Govt…the only “government” I need in my life.
Agreed 🙂 Mine’s necked down to .338 though for even less gov’t 😉
Isn’t the Rantifa’s standard to demand their way or beatings, fire, prison, and death for disagreeing with them?
Yes, but you’ll get the beatings, fire, prison and death even if you give them their way.
It’s just delayed to their next moving of the goalposts.
The entire philosophy of ‘progressivism” is
We are perfect. We deserve to rule.
Obey us or we will kill you.
But even if you do obey us, we reserve our privilege to kill you at some time in the future if it would amuse us to do so.
Once someone has power, and convinces themselves that they are God, there is no longer any reasoning at work. Just a lust for even more power, plus the realization that they can indulge their lusts and fantasies with no fear of consequences.
This is why every “progressive” state eventually ends up looking like Zimbabwe.
clear ether
eon
Re your seventh paragraph: That is precisely why Mohammad created Islam.
It is also why I maintain that Islam is a system of government masquerading as a religion, while Communism is a religion masquerading as a system of government. Both need complete erasure . . .
“We are perfect. We deserve to rule.
Obey us or we will kill you.
But even if you do obey us, we reserve our privilege to kill you at some time in the future if it would amuse us to do so.”
Sounds like a certain “Religion of Peace”!
Zar Belk!
@ John T. Egbert
And “environmentalism” is a pseudo-religious cult masquerading as “science”. One devoted to primitivism, socialist “feudalism”, and the “culling” of the human “herd”.
Most people don’t know that “environmentalism” grew out of the 1950’s “UFO contactee” movement, which in its turn began when in 1945, academic elitists realized that thanks to B-29s and A-bombs, starting foreign wars was no longer a safe “spectator sport”.
Look up “Donald M. Ware”, an academic elitist and “UFO contactee” bigwig who became a major architect of the “environmental movement” in the early 1970s. And incidentally, a close associate of Richard Nixon.
cheers
eon
At the carwashes, I assume Four Points Tequila will be served?
Car washes?
Harumph! Harumph!
Yeah, that’s the left’s strategy alright: “we’re right, you’re wrong.” They take it on faith that their truth is the “real” truth. And yet when WE take thing on faith, like, well… faith, we’re shouted down as superstitious cave-dwellers.
Well Shiite. Just kill’m all and let God sort’m out.
Besides He is the one that knows where each belongs.
My original Pattern 53 3 band rifle carries Birmingham England proofmarks from 1860. It came to me from a bazaar in Kabul Afghanistan, thanks to a young friend who was stationed there with the Tennessee Army National Guard. After a thorough cleanup and a little restoration work, it occupies an honored place on the mantle over our fireplace. It’s an homage to my Confederate ancestors who carried similar arms during the yankee invasion. On occasion, it still gets taken to the deer woods out back, where it still proves to be fully functional and deadly with home-cast Minie’ bullets.
I’m impressed. You captured that Karen perfectly.
Hotrod Lincoln:
I got an India Pattern Brown Bess from from one of my officers who went to Afghanistan. He was retired Active and then-SF reserve and was called up immediately on 9-11. I was his SGT. He came in 9-12 already with his hair cut military style. I told him to keep his hat on and I would keep our staff weenie Captain off his tail.
We set up so that our crew would take care of his yard for his wife and were on call if anything needed fixing. When he got back from his deployment, he asked me to come to his place because he had something for me. When I got there, he gave me the Brown Bess. He had found it in an Al Quada arms cache mixed among modern weapons. It was old enough that there was no problem bringing it home.
Subotai Bahadur
Under the headings of Unintended Consequences and Be Careful What You Wish For…https://www.theepochtimes.com/article/small-new-york-town-devastated-as-gun-plant-shuts-down-5550782?utm_source=Goodevening&src_src=Goodevening&utm_campaign=gv-2023-12-23&src_cmp=gv-2023-12-23&utm_medium=email&est=Ts68FdzgQQQyBJCVNvTMP%2F%2FcJQf1EChHqH0aN2VnuSDnI6Rl9WX0Z9X0aZQ%3D